The third episode of the QFP features guest, Natalie Kretschmer, a hapkido instructor. Find her on instagram @big_ol_mango or wilmingtonmartialarts.com. Follow the podcast @queerfitnesspod. The Queer Fitness Podcast is an interview podcast all about queer experiences with sports, fitness and our bodies.
Support the show on Patreon.com/queerfitnesspod to hear bonus content from this episode.
Transcript coming soon! (at queerfitnesspod.wordpress.com)
The third episode of the QFP features guest, Natalie Kretschmer, a hapkido instructor. Find her on instagram @big_ol_mango or wilmingtonmartialarts.com. Follow the podcast @queerfitnesspod. The Queer Fitness Podcast is an interview podcast all about queer experiences with sports, fitness and our bodies.
Support the show on Patreon.com/queerfitnesspod to hear bonus content from this episode.
Transcript coming soon! (at queerfitnesspod.wordpress.com)
Welcome to the queer fitness podcast. I'm your host Elise. And each week I'll be interviewing a queer person about their experiences in fitness and sports. This week I interviewed have Quito instructor, Natalie Kretschmer
Speaker 2:[inaudible].
Speaker 1:The queer fitness podcast is co-produced by Eaton Robinson. This episode of the queer fitness podcast is sponsored by our Patrion. For$1 a month or more, you can become a patron of the show and get access to bloopers, bonus content, or even become a co-producer. Find out more at patrion.com/queer fitness pod
Speaker 2:[inaudible]
Speaker 1:well, could you introduce yourself, uh, your name, your queer identity, and any other identifying words about Shu. Cool. Well, I'm Natalie Kretschmer. Um, th the kids call me either instructor, Natalie or ms Natalie, even though I'm supposed to go by my last name because Kretschmer is, uh, the worst wouldn't want to be miss K. no, not really. And like, I don't expect five-year-olds to be able to spell my name because I couldn't spell it til I was like nine, so it, it, yeah. Um, I guess I would identify as like either gay or lesbian. I'm not really one for like labels, it's just not something that I have needed for myself. And I fully appreciate the, how they help other people, but it's just not, I'm a gay human and that's why I asked you. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and I use she her pronouns and that's pretty much it. Um, I would say, I don't know how else would I identify myself? That's tricky. I'm actually, you wouldn't be able to tell it by looking at me, but I'm actually a quarter Korean, so, but that is a strong part of my identity and it's why I do the martial art that I do. It's a Korean martial art. So, um, and yeah. So let's talk about the Korean heritage. Was there like a parent that then was doing martial arts or was it just like encouraged to do? Actually I was trying to do martial arts for a long time when I was a kid, but my mom wouldn't let me because I was the most like noncommittal child on earth. You know, I'd be super into something for like a week and then never touch it again. So she didn't want me to do martial arts because usually most traditional martial arts schools require like a year long contract. So she was like in up front for the keys? Yeah. Or like, yeah. And that was back in the day because now at our school we do, um, we do like a longer trial program so that you actually have a little more time to decide. But back in the day, it was like, you get like three weeks in a uniform for like a hundred dollars. And she was like, yeah, no, we're not doing that. And so it took a while. But, um, no, no one did any martial arts. I mean, my grandfather, he's the on my mom's side and my grandfather is, um, is Korean. And when he was growing up in South Korea, he's 94, so he was growing up under, um, under Japanese occupation. So he did a little bit of like, um, like Kendo when he was in school, but he didn't do any, any traditional martial arts cause it kind of was illegal a little bit, um, little bit punishable by prison time. And what have you. Um, so no one, no one did martial arts. I'm actually like, I'm the only one in my family who's ever, who's ever done any of that. Um, but definitely the Korean heritage influenced which one I chose. I was like, I want to do like TaeKwonDo or something. And then, um, we realized that a friend of mine, miles who, um, he actually knows a stunt man, but he was, um, but miles actually I've known him since I was born cause our parents both worked in film at the time and um, or I guess my mom didn't anymore, but you know, they, that's how they met each other. And he had been taking classes at that school since he was about six years old and I was like 13 when I started, 13, 14. And we were like, Oh yeah, like miles goes here. So like, well I want to try it out. Cause we knew he really liked it and it was also a Korean martial art. And, uh, now it's nine years later and here I am. Yeah. How have you changed with martial arts over the past nine years? Ooh, that's a can I'm bringing another, an anecdote. So at the end of every belt test, we, um, we read out the names of all the kids and they come up and received their belts and received their score sheet at some point so they know how well they did. And um, before I was leaving for college, cause when I, when I went to college, I went to UNC chapel Hill, so like two hours away, not, not close enough that I could go in and still teach classes. Um, so like the summer before I left, uh, we were like the last belt test. I was like, Oh, can I read the names and everyone at the head table, like my boss, miles Tyler, they all like, they all kind of laughed and I was like, what? And my boss was like, dude, do you think like, do any of you at this table think that if you thought of Natalie at her first class, she would someday want to read a group, a list of names in front of a giant group of people? And the answer would be no because my first class was a lot of like looking at the ground and like trying something and be like, I can't do it. And, and so I've definitely gotten a lot more confident. That's a huge one just in the fact that the, I, I have a set of things that I definitely know how to do now and that have kind of a sphere of, of the worlds that I can kind of understand is, is my sphere of the world and have a little expertise in and also being in a position. So I started teaching, well in quotes teaching for like almost like barely a year after I started. Um, that's when like when, as an adult student, cause I started when I was 13. You're technically an adult ish. Um, but you're in the adult program. Um, you can start teaching after about a year because, um, like mostly you're just like fetching targets and holding things for people. But um, but then you, you, you learn and you get better and you, and you start teaching. So I've been, I've been actually teaching, actually teaching for probably about like six years, seven years. Sure. But I've been helping with classes for eight and I think putting, being in like a leadership position or putting like a really quiet kid in the leadership position can, can really help because especially like, um, I'm the younger of two siblings and my sister was always the one who was like in charge and it was always right and she was also always bigger than me, so she always won. And so I think putting someone who is usually in the, in the position of being kind of like overpowered in a position of power can either be really good or really bad. And in my case hopefully it was really good. So yeah. Are still continuing petite? Yeah, I like my little students mature ones. So like I started lifting when I was in college. I didn't do any of that in high school. I was just doing, doing pure martial arts and nothing else, which for the most part it'll, it'll get you where you need to go. But like I was saying with like miles and Tyler, like they, you, you have your direct techniques, which is like all of your actual technique that like your kicks, your self defense techniques, your roles, your joint locks here, what have you. But, um, there's also a school of techniques that we call indirect techniques. And those are everything that will make your technique better without actually practicing it directly. All right. So, um, like physical exercise of any kind of meditation, we actually, um, any, any student who comes through the belts actually has to memorize a list of categories of indirect techniques. It's all seven of them. And, um, so that's, I think probably was the biggest change in my martial arts career is like realizing, Oh yeah. Like actually you should exercise and like lift weights. Yeah. Like, and I try and do that a lot more, um, sometimes to the detriment of practicing direct techniques, but, you know, so maybe this should have been earlier on, but what belt aren't you? Oh yeah. That, that would make some sense. So I'm actually, I'm a second degree black belt, um, under the, uh, United States, Korean martial arts Federation. And, um, I'm going for third degree, probably about next summer, which is fun. I'm going to treat it like a marathon and just start like hardcore training about six months out. And, uh, because the way we do, especially high level belt tests, they're really just pressure tests and tests that we push you to your absolute limit, um, with a lot of, um, like with my second degree belt test, actually, we, they had me do a lot of stuff that I just had not done before. So, um, we do, um, what we call flipping. Basically it's a, it's a break fall, but you jump and you flip over and you essentially land on your back in a position that's meant to like protect all of your vital organs and bones and stuff. Um, and at black belt tests we had students and every belt test after black belt, we have students flip on a piece of plywood basically. Um, and the reason is not to see if they're going to hurt themselves. It's this thick floor. It's like half inch plywood, over three inches of foam. They're not going to hurt themselves and may come out with come out of it with a couple of bruises. But, um, the main thing is it's like a mental thing, right? So, um, the idea is when are you going to have to use your flip? You know, when you're riding your bike and you flip over the handlebars or when you're walking down the stairs and you fall, right. We have like, we have to make sure that at any belt test, any technique you do is going to be usable in a C in a situation where you're tired, you're scared, you're full of adrenaline, you're freaking out and you're just not expecting it. Um, so they made me flip onto the board off of about a four foot tall pile of mats, which I had never done before. And that was fun. Um, cause I, like they make, they make other people do it, but I didn't think my flipping was good enough for them to have me do it. And my boss was like, pull the mats out. And I was like, okay. All right, I can do like one stack. And he was like, no, no, no, all of them. And I was like, Oh, okay. And literally miles was sitting at the head table and he looked over him and uh, at my boss and he was like, are you sure? And he was like, yeah, and I did it and I didn't die. And it only sucked a little bit cause I got like a tiny bruise, but it wasn't that bad. So we try and push people to their, their absolute limits. So that third degree tests can be fun. It's gonna be rolling. Um, did you ever have to come out to your dojo or in your students or parents of students or were you already so fun story? I didn't know I was gay until I was 21. That's pretty normal. Um, so I, you know, I started working there when I was 30. I should have known like I'm a be real. That's the thing that I should've realized. My mom knew, my sister knew, everyone knew. Like, it's the kind of thing that like, if anyone expresses surprise, I'm just like, are you really like, did you not know? But, um, so I didn't like, I've never had to like explicitly come out to tell anyone. I mean, like I told my mom, but like, and my sister and like my dad kind of, I was like, except with my dad, it was more like, Oh, Hey, I have a girlfriend. He was like, OK, um, and say kind of same thing with like my boss who's like a pseudo dad at this point. Um, I was like, Oh yeah, this is my girlfriend. She come to belt test dinner. And he was like, Oh cool, what's your name? She was like, and that kind of thing. Um, so not really, but there's always kind of that, that understanding that like we are in the South in the Bible belt and am teaching children. Um, so there I always am a little more reserved, especially when we get like grandparents bringing, bringing kids in. But I also have a rainbow watch band that I wear all the time. So it's pretty cool. Yeah. It's kinda nice that, uh, like it's, it's one of those things then like this is my, my diabolical plan is like, I wear this all the time. Um, my kid, like all of my students sometimes I call them my kids cause some of them are at this point like, let's be real. Some are. But, um, all my, all my students know me for this watch band at this point, but wearing it for like four years, five years now. Um, and uh, that like, it's the kind of thing that like, I want them if they don't understand now to realize when they're older, like, um, especially since, so I'm actually, I didn't know any gay women when I grew up. Yeah, definitely did. Yeah, you definitely did buddy. And there's also, you know, I have this one student who kids say the weirdest thing sometimes I swear like we have, um, there's another girl, she, uh, she always has like the weirdest keyed interactions. Like she'll come up to you and be like, um, this kid, uh, he just looked my eyeball, what do I do? And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what you do, why do all these things happen to you? And she's had like two kids ask her. She's like, kids will be like, why are you a girl? She's like, no, I'm, I've had a couple kids do that to me too. The weirdest one I've had is this one kid, he asked me or he asked me how old I was, you know, cause kids don't understand age. I've had kids think that I'm 12 and also that I'm 90. Like I've literally had kids say, you're probably like 90. And um, she, uh, so or like this one, this one kid, he asked me how old I was and at the time I was like 20, 21, something like that. And he was like, Oh, you're like 20, that means you're going to have to get married soon. And I was like, what? Like what are you talking about? And so I had this whole long conversation with him about the fact that he was like seven at the time or this whole long conversation with him about the fact that no one has to get married ever. And he specifically said, I was like, why do you think I had to get married? He was like, well, cause you're a girl. And I was like, okay. Second of all, why do only girls have to get married? And also like only girls are getting married. Who do you think they're marrying? It's always interesting to deal with, especially in like, like martial arts is a still a very like gendered thing, you know? Um, like most of them, most of my students are boys. But here's the thing, most of my high level students are actually girls. Yeah, I've heard that before. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm so like boys get put in martial arts because their parents want him to do something and brought an energy. Yeah, exactly. And they, or they want them to have like behavioral issues and so they just throw him in martial arts. But most of the girls who are in martial arts are there because they want to be there, which is, you know, so basically most high boat classes are about 50, 50 split, which is, which is really nice. So, um, yeah, a lot of the younger and beginner belts and the very beginner students are like male, but it's, it's kind of a weird thing to be in that position and just not care. Right. And especially in a martial art where you don't have to be the bigger, stronger person. Um, that's what I always tell, especially like adult students who are starting, I always, I always make sure that like anyone who's coming in and kind of understands that like you, you will have the ability to defend yourself against someone bigger, but also someone smaller. Have any students come out to you but or has that happened or have there been any other life questions or not? Not too many. Um, again, I'm only 23 and I realized I was gay when I was 21, so it hasn't been that long. Um, but yeah, not too many wearing the watch band from longer. Yeah. Again, I should've known, but I did not, I had my suspicions. They were just confirmed when I was 21, but, um, no I haven't had to like, it's, it's just a lot of, um, like casually mentioning like, Oh yeah, like my girlfriend doing this, this and this, and having some kids go, huh. I mean some kids not care. Um, I actually, I do, I didn't have a student who, um, came out to me but not in the school after he had quit. So he, he came out as trans after he had quit classes and part of the reason he quit classes cause he wasn't comfortable making that transition in that space. And I, I, I wish that there was something I could do about that, but the, the, um, I, I just don't have enough authority over it. And also, you know, things like change your rooms and bathrooms, you don't really have much control over. And that's always, that's always rough. Um, although, but yeah, we're still friends. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what is your favorite part of taquito? Oh man, that's tough. Um, I dunno, I like, uh, you know, if we're talking about like technique wise, my favorite thing is like self defense. I like the more like soft style stuff cause I'm not, again, I have asthma. Um, so I'm not a huge, I'm not a like a quick spar. Um, I'm more of the type of person who'd rather like kick them once, grab their arm and pull it off of their body, that kind of thing. Um, so that's more, that's where my strategy for talking about technique, I like, uh, I like a lot of joint locks and stuff like that and pressure points. Those are always fun. Yeah. Cause, uh, um, they're just, there's fun little bits, but, um, and I like, I like having those concepts and like getting more familiar with concepts that let me, um, examine technique further and like extrapolate new technique and, and better understanding of technique just from understanding another one. It's like, it's all like a big puzzle game. It's really fun. Um, and but also I think concept wise, the reason I've probably stayed so long is just I like feeling secure at all times, you know? Um, like I like not minding that I'm walking home alone at night, you know, I carry a little stick with other parts of your life. Exactly. Yeah. And I like, um, uh, I dunno, like when I realized I was gay, I was like, Oh shit. Well, I'm glad. I already know self defense. That's nice. So the more dangerous parts of the country and world are slightly less dangerous by virtue of the fact that I can protect myself and um, yeah, I dunno. Like I've always liked being prepared. Like I'm a very practical person. You know, my, uh, my friends called me like squad dad because I always have like a first aid kit in my backpack and like, and I'm really good at opening jars, but that's the other reason. But, um, but I've always liked being prepared in any given situation and like, like I have a road safety kit in my car. I have the first aid kit I have, um, I'm prepared for most things just by virtue of what I have learned over the years. And I just, I like that feeling of having something to do in any situation, especially a situation where someone is trying to hurt me or like, um, I like being relatively prepared, you know, like any good martial artists will tell you that there's no such thing as like full preparation, you know. But I like having like, understanding enough to get me by, you know, like under, like knowing pretty securely and pretty confidently that I don't know nothing, you know. Is is nice. So
Speaker 3:since coming out, has that like affected your experience in the, I mean, like, I know we talked about like sort of like talking to people about being gay or queer or whatever. Um, but like your experience in your own body with the sport or sort of like inwardly reflecting on your work that's a good queer queer experience and how it affects your training or have keyed in whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, um, so fun fact, I realize that I was some flavor of gay, um, while I was taking this class called the psychology of section gender. Um, not because of the class, because of a girl in the class. But you know, it's fine. Um, and, uh, so it was really, really interesting class. Um, we did a of like deep conversation about like everything relating to sex and gender and like we looked at it from a cognitive standpoint. Um, we looked at it from a social standpoint, um, and it was just a really nice, like high level, like free form open discussion class. Um, and with a really, I really liked my professor. Um, his name is Patrick and he for a, uh, like straight CIS white man. He did a very good job of making sure that the floor was open to discussion and that he like prefaced pretty much everything with the fact that like, this is not my experience. This is what the general consensus is if you have the range of it. Yeah, exactly. And, um, so I think in realizing that I was gay, it was kinda, it was a slightly freeing experience and that, um, in my martial arts training and also in just like my general fitness journey and what have you. Yeah. Um, I've always been less focused on the things that are traditionally focused on by females in the fitness world. Um, and it was just kind of like, it was a freeing thing to just not have to explain that to people or not have to justify that to people. Um, because there's this, there's just kind of wiggle room now of like if I go to the gym and decide that like I would just want to get swole, like not, I'm not trying to do like the, the like fitness influencer, Instagram kind of thing that like, um, that is traditionally expected of women in gyms. Right. Um, like I've just not had it just being like casually being like, yeah, my girlfriend did this. Yeah. Like rainbow wish, botch go pride. Yeah, right. It kind of takes the question out of people essentially. Um, and that was something that I, in, when I was younger it was always kind of like questioning and like kind of struggled with was this idea that like, no, I don't really want to be like the, the traditional image of a, of a woman. I would much rather be like the true like more traditionally masculine traits are that are kind of what I tend to pursue in fitness goals. Um, and it's kinda, it's kind of freeing to not have again, to not have to justify it to people. Um, but at the same time it kind of makes me sad because I'm like, well, but, but it doesn't have to be because I'm gay, but just like I like this is part of being a woman and that's why, uh, another thing that I caught her, I kind of came across when I was sort of grappling with labels and um, and how do identify myself as a part of the queer community is that like a lot of people in my, in my position who present their gender the same way I do, would identify as non-binary. And I have specifically not to do that because I don't think that existing outside of the binary expectations of like womanhood make me not a woman. And so that is kind of the, that's the thing that I've always sort of wrestled with in like the goals that I have for my body and my physical ability and, and like kind of who I am. Yeah. Cause I don't want it to be because I'm gay, I go to the gym and lift weights. The, the same program that some men use. Like I'd much rather it just be like, this is just the person that I am. Yeah. You know? And, and I feel like there's a lot of, still, there's still a lot of stigma around like getting stronger and building muscle for, for women and fitness of or, um, or like females and fitness or non-binary feminine presenting people in fitness. Um, and I think like that like twenties thing where they literally used to tell women if you like lift weights in the gym, your babies will turn out ugly. Like it was actually a thing that they told people. And I'm so mad that it has PR like persisted to this day. And I still try and tell people that I talk to, you know, like, um, like I try and tell my mom these things and like my sister and my girlfriend and like everyone that I encounter who's trying to like lose weight or do what have you like build muscle, it will burn fat. That's what, yeah, that's what you do. And um, uh, it, I just don't, I don't like the, the, the gendering of strength has prevented a lot of, a lot of people from getting to their fitness goals in any way. And especially because like muscle is so important to have, especially when you are aging and you're losing muscle mass and you, and you want to maintain your health and your joint health and your bone health. Like it can help you so much. And yeah, like I like, I like that idea of being able to be the strong person when something, when people need it. Um, so that's what it's, that's what's always interested me about the fitness world. And how do you stay motivated or do you have any advice for people either trying to like continue or starting as you are? Advice. Oh Oh, lower. Either continuing students or new students. Hmm. Okay. From personal experience. Personal. Okay. That's, that's tough. Okay. So the first thing that I always tell all of my students when they're feeling discouraged because my, all my, um, in my personal experience, the thing that has always held me back was just the fear of failure and the fear of not looking like I don't know what I'm doing. And, and um, so the, I stole it from adventure time and I tell it to people a lot now. Um, being bad at something is the first step to being good at something cause it's a step towards doing something. Yeah. Jake the dog, if I had your time, perfect practice makes perfect
Speaker 3:practice and make perfect, perfect practice. Makes perfect. But you know, still like you just, you just do it, do it over and over again. You know, just kinda, just do something. Cause,
Speaker 1:uh, and I dunno, I, I would say because I can no longer discount like fitness as a part of my life because I realized like that's the best way to maintain like self-respect, if that makes sense. And not in the way of like, I don't feel good about myself if I don't go to the gym. It's more like I don't feel like I've taken care of my body if I don't exercise. Right.
Speaker 3:Okay. So I had a recommendation for my sister to play a fun game at the end of every single episode. I ask you some trivia question.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:Um, so I have two pages of trivia in front of me. One is how Quito trivia and one is queer trivia, sort of USA focused. And I'll alternate between the two.
Speaker 1:See how did it, how good I do it. Then my dad always said I should go on trivia because I know a bunch of random facts. Like, did you know you can crawl through the air or of a blue whale? No. Yeah, you can. Um, also, Mickey mouse was invented by, you know, Walt Disney and malt. Disney had a fear of mice. Um, also it used to be in 17th century, France used to be fashionable where a lightning rod is on your head every time you walked outside. So I know stuff like that, it's completely useless. So we'll see if I know stuff that
Speaker 3:the boats, I would think those sort of act as the, yeah. You know, I don't know. I don't think normal people actually work. Exactly. Yeah. Um, so trivia with Natalie Tridion. Um, so have keynote trivia first. Who was the creator of Hokkaido?
Speaker 1:Well that depends. Okay. So we acknowledged, I have two, I have two names. You may, those names may be right. So, um, choy young school is generally credited with the foundation of the martial art as a whole. Um, jihad J was the 14th b lack b elt who, who, u h, trained under[ inaudible] s chool. He's still alive. He wears a golden belt. He's also i n game of death with Bruce Lee and u m, h e's generally credited with balancing the soft style techniques with kicking because he had a like take o ne n ote background. U m, and he's also the one who is generally considered to have coined the name H opkins. That is a, o ur orange belt oral e valuation.
Speaker 3:Um, and a queer trivia question. What was the first lesbian magazine published in the U S day? I do not know. Let's see. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Could you guess a year? Cause I, I'm going to guess the 30s. No. Um, so the first one was vice versa in 1947 but also accepted the ladder in 1950. Sexual, it was much more popular. I had like a group of women behind it in San Francisco. Nice. That's still, that's good to know. Yeah. So we'll go back to the easier for you and[inaudible] question. It's probably easier when or where, when, when and where was the first OJ Ang in the Hito DOJ in the us. U S Ooh, well I'm, well, I know that you a hint. Well actually no I can't.
Speaker 1:It probably would have been sometime in the 70s. But, um, I know for example, in our Federation, there are some people who say that the grand master of our Federation is the first non-creative her, no Blackbelt and how Kyoto, he doesn't know that for sure. I don't know that for sure. No one really does, but it was pretty early here in his black boat and like 63. Um, so I can for sure tell you that he started at school in the 70s, but uh, yeah, but I'm not sure if, um,
Speaker 3:so I'm again, like I don't know the entire history and I was just sort of trying to pull some questions, but I got 1984 in get Daly city, which is near San Francisco. And it was like one of the descendants or like one of the students of China and[inaudible] yeah, that would be, um, Oh I had, I was like, I was about to be like, I can pull the name up, but then I was just like, I probably closed on that would probably be the first, like
Speaker 1:what, what would have been at the time considered be like,
Speaker 3:um, so yeah, the microphone cut off. Yeah, we got most of the trivia. I'm not gonna have you redo trivia cause we asked questions about queer history and I got it wrong. You got all the half cuter questions and next time I played trivia with somebody I will remember to plug in my computer. So it doesn't, I have, where should people find you if they want to know more?
Speaker 1:But yeah, my Instagram is a big old mango with underscoring between the words. So VIG underscore O L underscore mango, and I literally have zero posts, so not the most fruitful Instagram account. The website for your, um, there's, there's a, it's just Wilmington martial arts.com. That's like the marketing website. You can also go on our Facebook page. We post a lot of like pictures and videos of like belt tests and things like that there. And like if you're also, if you just search Kate for martial arts center, you'll find it. Um, and just come in and watch some classes and yeah. Awesome. Thank you. No problem. I'm good at talking a lot.
Speaker 4:The queer fitness podcast is co-produced by Eden Robinson. This episode of the queer fitness podcast is sponsored by our Patrion. For$1 a month or more, you can become a patron of the show and get access to bloopers, bonus content, or even become a co-producer. Find out more at patrion.com/queer fitness pod.