From Butterfly to Gumdo with Cai DeVries

The sixth episode of the QFP features guest, Cai Devries, amateur martial artist, and partner of host, Elise. Find them on twitter @writepaintspar. Follow the podcast @queerfitnesspod. The Queer Fitness Podcast is an interview podcast all about queer experiences with sports, fitness and our bodies. 

Support the show on Patreon.com/queerfitnesspod to hear bonus content from this episode. 

Transcript coming soon! (at queerfitnesspod.wordpress.com)

Transcript

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Welcome to the Queer Fitness podcast. I'm your host, Elise, and each week I'll be interviewing a queer person about their experiences and fitness and sports. It's a special episode this week as I talk to my partner kind of raise about their experiences as an amateur martial artist. The Queer Fitness Podcast is co produced by Eden Robinson. This episode of The Queer Fitness podcast is sponsored by AARP, A tree on when you support this podcast on patreon your help. Making this labor of love a long lasting one. And the first goal covers monthly audio file hosting and transcription costs, and you get access to patreon only perks like bonus content from every episode. Support the show at patriot dot com slash queer fitness pod. I hope you know who I am by this point. Um, hi. Uh, could you introduce yourself your name, your queer identity and any other words to describe you? Um, hi. Hi. I used a then or he him pronounce queer identity wise. I believe that means trans masculine other it's described me, are creative. I mean, nerd is definitely a valid word. Oh, artist. He's like creative kind of captures that, right? Yeah, but it's more specific. Okay, artist, I have a martial artist and an artist artist and tired. I am also a writer working on. I just determined today that it's going to be a trilogy. So tell me more about doing martial arts. What? Which martial art are you doing? I don't know, Overachiever. Okay, I do. Technically, I d three I do taekwondo, Hapkido and Gondo. Um, gum does not gumbo. I've said so many people asked me to repeat that because they thought I was talking about soup. I'm not Have also seen it spelled with a K. Yeah. So the reason for that is because in Korean, the sound is actually the same exact character. And it depends on I believe it depends on the car text. I don't know enough about the specifics of the Korean language. Make a true, educated statement about that. But I do know that, like what I have understanding wise Is the characters the same? How long you been doing these three? I've been I've been participating in the sports about a year now, which is kind of cool. It's a very different experience being an adult starting a new sport. Come on. I swam my entire life from age like five until I graduated high school at 17. So they're used to have that culture works with swim culture and with how how the sport itself is run. Swim meets what you're stripping. Inspector strips are like That was how all of us would introduce ourselves like, Hey, what? Seven certain persons named here? Yeah, that's glowing. Which races were you doing with your stroke? But I just always asked what she is. And so that's not really one of things you do with taekwondo. It's like you can visually see, you're like, Oh, it's your This built that school. My belt rings are not the same as the other ones. My, I tried at first, I'm gonna level up at one pull up like a video game. So I was gonna try and go their belt systems. Yeah, I was going to try and go up. Each felt equal. No, I think Ito is ridiculously harder than type one for me. Okay. For me? Yeah. Taekwondo is easier to learn and comprehend and compete with, then happy. Oh, yeah. Um, just because there's so much. I have to learn with Tokyo so much, and I didn't think you wanted something different. You out of a marshal or hop key to really that you were looking for When I started, I was originally just looking for, like, taekwondo, and I I found a place that has three styles, all Korean styles and into the liking, all free like, because the application for each one is different for taekwondo. I mean, it's great for competitive stuff. It's great for strengthening your thighs. Great workout like really great workout. But help Tito to me is a very practical art with how it moves with the situations like your stance for taekwondo. If you're doing a competition or exploring it, it's faster if you're just turned sideways and just condo's if you like. But then with taquito, your stance is literally just you're standing there. Yeah, because it's if someone say you're standing in a bar and someone comes up and it's like getting in your face or is like trying thio like, abduct you. I guess it's it's practical movements throughout that Yeah, Gondo. There is not much practical used to it. It's more just fun because I'm using a sword. So you mentioned swimming? Yes. Be swimming. Yeah. Tell me, like what swimming was like growing up, starting swimming and then becoming a competitive swimmer. Um, I mean, my parents started all all of us kids in swimming because my grandparent's let live by the beach. And I mean, I had a similar experience, like, Yeah, I got taught to swim at a young age because it was important to be able to swim if you live near the beach. Exactly. My mom wanted to be able for us to either go to the beach or go to the my grandparents stopped by the sound, not be terrified of us being in the water. Yeah, I mean, beyond, like, their sting rays and charts like she's like, I don't want the swimming part to be the scary part. Right? And she always end up being like the only adult over there. So her concern with Valerie, Um, but then the more real did it. I mean, my parents hopes, um, this one culture of being with watchers of the parents. Oh, yeah, because it's fun. It's a fun experience for the kids in the parents because the parents of getting into it. There have a great time cheering and especially if you're doing like Summer Slim, it's super fun. Um, and then when you're one of the one of kids in the summers, it's it's a great It's like it's a good team because I do better when it is an individualized team sport. So I like putting the pressure on myself. It is my own performance. If I mess it up, it's my fault. Yeah, it's not gonna be like if I am on like a soccer team and you have to let constant work together because I don't want to get angry at someone. I'd rather get angry myself like I messed up like, you know, I know I could do Butterfly better than that. I don't it faster than you've also got the support from the team. Oh, yeah, but then you also like when you get out of water, you've got your coaches be like, Yeah, we're like, thank you. Also, for your teammates that are like standing behind a block to being like you did a great job. Don't worry about it. That was That was a great experience. It's kind like that. What I've experienced in this past year, type one? No. Even as an adult. First year student for this, um is it is so individualized. So when I do my form, it is on me. When I spar, it's on me. But your teammates or your other students and dough dang are just as supportive. And like, they also understand when you because they can see you beating yourself up. They see you die. They know the expression because they understand that I put this on pressure on myself. I'm so sad that it turned out this way, and then they understand, like, Oh, you still did a great job. You still tried. You put yourself out there and you did it, which is a big deal. Pretty cool. Yeah, well, so yeah, like when you came out Well, college? Well, yeah, it was college. That was why it that was the reason, I ask is like, you weren't You didn't come out to like a team. You are more like family. Oh, well, 1st 1st I had to come out to myself because up until that point, I held all of us that come out at a later point life Totally know those red flags are like, Really? I don't even know. So like my first coming out had to be to myself First I had Thio I had Thio get past the initial shock. I was raised so religious, so religious It was not an option. It was never even like talked about unless it wasn't a very, very negative. Yes, dance, Homosexuality, transgender whatever highly frowned upon and fire and brimstone very much. I was every Southern Baptist let me just for some perspective, very evangelical Prosit, Um, and two. That's why the first step of coming out to myself was so important of I had to understand who I waas. I had to accept the gravity of the situation because it was a big deal. It was a very big deal to be like Oh, I'm attracted to women. Oh, yes, it was very it was not really is. It was one of those moments where actually, when they won, the absolute gravity of something kicks in and you just stand there and it feels like the end of the world because life, as you knew it is about to point to change and it did, because I came out to myself at 18. I was my first semester of college. A lot of changes happening that for fear. Um, I told my two best friends and they were super supportive, super great. And then I started going to therapy was a Christian counselor. I have mixed sentiments on that, but the basically the counselor was like, You have to tell your parents and was like pressure did it telling them about Hi, I am attracted to women And it went just about as poorly as you think. Um, and I ended up having to take six months off of school. Um, I wasn't allowed to go back to the original school because my parents believed that. That's why, um, I had six months to fix myself. And so in that six months, I put myself back in the closet and try to figure out ways that I could survive being myself, and I wish I could say I turned to being active to make that healthier. But I definitely didn't. There was a lot of very, very poor poor choices made in that time. Um, and then I eventually just ended up going back to college. How do you know a different one? Um, and stayed in the closet until two years ago when my parents found out again starting martial arts a year ago. Um, it was something I needed to dio. Yeah, um, part of for mental health issues, because my parents were not handling things well, we're putting a lot of pressure. There was a lot of a lot of anger, and so I ended up going back into therapy. But then also, I wanted to like myself and one of the things I've always wanted to do. And I'd always respected where people who made it to Black Belt and hired a martial art. And it was something I wanted to do since I was a kid. And I am so glad that I did, because the perspective of myself has improved so much. And having that self respect helps deal with the pressure and the side comments and the just implied expectation that my parents still put on meat but are getting better about. And it's it's helped create boundaries through self respect. Finally, I mean, I can see that too. Can we talk about you being homophobic? in high school. Uh, yeah. And did you make like, Yeah, where there was there a gay teammate on your 17? No, no, you had a like a Hey, friend. Me, actually. Could have been a gate. Yeah, you know, because I was an asshole. Okay, so I have this very evangelical Protestant growing up in a family. Very anti LGBT. Um, I was definitely a homophone high school. And a lot of that stems from not understanding gender identity and not understanding my own sexuality. I was scared of that. Like I always wanted to steal my brother's clothes. I would wear his gym shorts. I would wear hiss. He had this one shirt that my cousins from Brazil brought. It was like Cano and it had Portuguese on the front of it. And I always stole that freakin shirt because that was the coolest frickin shirt ever work. Gym shirt, gym shorts and cama. Oh, yeah. Actually, in seventh grade, my mom and sister, we were on our way to school, Had a sit down conversation with me about why I cannot wear boys basketball shorts and basketball T shirts and basketball shoes to school every day and it was It was like Okay, well, it's so uncomfortable, E. It was like a verbal here, but, like, in their eyes and in the what were raised. Yeah, you're a young lady. Young ladies don't do that. Like I've heard that my whole life is not correct. And every time I heard it, I just wanted to throw things. But being told that the justification of why you have to behave a certain way is you're a young lady. You have to, and I'm like, I don't Yeah, I was I was just a jerk because of religion, A load and religion is never good reason to be a drink to someone. I don't care what? Your stance on something else. Um, if you do in the name of God, you're no longer acting in the name of your religion. You're just being a dick. Um, and I remember I have conversations, absolute arguments that I had one really good gay friend. He was amazing. And we would happen is just discussions and both less believe in tears because the other person just didn't understand it. And I eventually apologized to him, especially after it came out. So I was just like, I am so sorry that my insecurity was then projected onto you. I am so sorry for what I did for things I said. And like, I'm sure there are other people in high school that I didn't know we're gay. And I said something stupid to them, and I feel terrible about it. And I know there are other people like me out there that were too scared to try and interact with it, understand their own sexuality, and it affects it so much. Not only didn't hurt me, but it caused me to hurt other people. And that's not okay. And so that's something that I had to deal with as well. Coming to terms with my sexuality was like, You need to go apologize, people. There's no excuse for ever having said these things were acting this way. Okay. Can you tell me about your first competition? No. Yes, I guess, um, he was a disaster. No, that's not true. It was a success because he went. It was it was a success. A for effort, child. Everybody gets apprentice evasion, drove a lot of participation trophy I own with the trophy. If I turn it So? So basically, let's get some context. Um, my form went just fine. I am very happy with the trophy I got with that one. My weapons form was chaos because I did the 1st 2 moves of one of my sword for him and forgot everything. But you can't just stop. You have to just keep faking it till you make it. And it's terrifying and it's terrible. And I'm glad I got the worst thing that could ever happen to you happened to me at my first competition, but it's still a horrible feeling where you're just like, Well, here we go and back from from the instructors that were judging really picture, you have intention with your form. And I'm like the intention is there when I remember, but far in good, I enjoyed sparring stuff just cause it was my first time scoring people outside my school. Yeah, when you spar people within your own school, you get used to reading their body language and reading how they for But then when you spar someone for the first time, you've no idea who they are. You've never seen them spar. You're just trying to guess based on their form. It's a whole new ball game and it's it's exciting. Yeah, but it's tough. It's definitely tougher than just sparring. Well, I'm like, I think nerves got the better of you for sure that this is like your for him with the nerves got the better of me because it was directly after my disastrous weapons form that I blanked out. But yes, competition, And like, it's a different kind of competition. You haven't really competed in a sport since high school. Yeah, not since high school. That was so it's a different feeling. Yeah, that was That was tough. And but it's cool, because in martial arts, the adult categories have less people in them. And so you get to know them really, really low Ge. And it was fun because I got to know these people and they're like, Oh, you should come in the competition in Jackson Villain, uh, February, because I now see you there again and you need all these other people. They're just cool person from this glorious hanging out with two, and I'm like, Okay, sure, it's It's a nice little community. Is there anything you feel like I haven't asked you. Oh, you're fine. I feel like you have so much you can use because I talk so much, you know? But there's also like we can honestly do apart too, because I don't know you so well. I also live here because, like, if you're not gonna ask, we're not gonna answer any of these questions right now. But I feel like I could ask you about like we haven't even touched on like, body stuff because, like when we first met, you're working out in the gym. Unlike trying to desperately lose weight, but like also masculine eyes your body through. Yeah, through more working, we haven't even touched on the fact that you are about to root. Thinking about changing how much you're doing taekwondo because of injuries because of injuries. Like we touched on the injuries. But like, there's more there. OK, are you ready for some trivia? I need, like, a theme song for trivia. We have some taekwondo slash condo trivia and some LGBT in North Carolina trivia, and we will alternate, as I have been doing. And this is not multiple choice. Okay. Thank you. I'm really bad a multiple choice. It gives me anxiety. Okay, Um, and direct the first question. When did taekwondo become an Olympic sport? Olympic sport. Who? A teaser. I would say the ace, because that's when I became popular in the United States s 0 2000 Really? Only other Olympic martial artist. You didn't when was in North Carolina? Executive order signed banning state funded conversion therapy of minors. I wish it was like early two thousands, but I want to say is about 2016 2017. So it's August 3rd 2019. I, uh, it's not actually like a band off all conversion there. It's just like receiving state funded. That's still not great miners. Okay, because you could still convert therapy majors. A dull boy knows that's what sucks is because the conversion therapy places most of them typically are religiously based. Like when my wife first came out to my parents, they tried to get me to go to this thing called Exodus International, which is a very evangelical Christian on conversion therapy thing, and I was 19 so no, they couldn't make me go. But it is important because North Carolina is the first southern state to in any way Ban convert from therapy. That's good. Yeah. What are the five tenets of taekwondo from the philosophy of Choi Hyung Ki? Um integrity, perseverance, courage. Oh, man, that's that's Yeah. So it the other three are courtesy self control and indomitable spirit. That's what Itwas a little bit early on a sign and he makes the kids repeated over and over again. He doesn't make the adults do it Like I see a sign every day. Yeah, Apparently not enough. Okay. Name three. Musician slash bands Who canceled events in response to the HB two bathroom Bill. Did gaga have it? Have it? I don't know. Um, early big name. Yeah. Jonas brothers just getting they just black Nick, Jonas, Demi Lovato and Nick Jonas had an event. Oh, Did they cancel? Cancel. Oh, my God. Thanks, guys. Um, so, uh, the names that I've got on my list Bruce Springsteen, Pearl Jam, Ringo Starr, Boston Cyndi Lauper, Mumford and Sons Danny Llevado, Nick Jonas, Brandi Carlile, Maroon five and author Sherman Alexie like I know all of those names. Thank you all. Yep. Wow. Um I have Yeah. Um So, actually, I'm gonna go until the next gonna go on right? Next allergy BT question Some others didn't cancel shows, but passed out Pro trans flyers or information about hotlines are available. Help. You'll like this. Jimmy Buffett didn't cancel, but made a statement. Oh, good. Okay, I get a statement. As for the future of shows in North Carolina, it would definitely depend on whether that stupid laws repealed. That is up to good people of North Carolina. And there are many, and I am confident that they will see that the right thing will be done. As Forrest said, Stupid is a stupid does. Oh my, we are blasting. Jimmy Buffet of the question is when Waas the bathroom portion of the Stupid Law repealed thing so recent. It's stupid, like 2018 toe March 30th 2017. So it like loss of about about almost exactly a year. Can you describe the stylistic difference between Gondo and Kendo? I know, for starters, your sword, when it's in its sheath, is actually facing the obstetric. That's one stylistically, Did I always You're looking dialectic different stylistic difference. I mean, my best guess would be so if it's if it's similar to one of the differences between karate and taekwondo. Taekwondo is very duh. It's very it stops. It stops like with Karajan forms, you keep its new to keep it going. But with taekwondo Well, what? The stylist? That window I d'oh, it's very like stopping okay. And so stylistically, if it follows that same trend, um, I would say that my desk has to be. It's more stopping then. Kendo. That is not correct. Um so kendo waits for one decisive strike. Uh, and Gundha. Gondo is fast and dynamic. Small motions like battlefield combat. Oh, it's so much fun. But the lines are blurred because Korea send the team yearly to the world kendo competition. Hell, yeah, they dio where can people find you on the internet toe? Learn more. But you're on a little more active on Twitter, which is right, Pete Spark. And it's right isn't like writing. I'm writing a book. Thank you for being on the pod. CalFed The Queer fitness Podcast is co produced by Eden Robinson. This episode of the Queer Fitness podcast is sponsored by our Patreon when you support this podcast.  Your help making this labor of love a long lasting one, and the first goal covers monthly audio file hosting and transcription costs, and you get access to Patreon only perks like bonus content from every episode. Support the show at patreon dot com slash Queer Fitness Pod.